[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody, welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast, powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today, we have another episode of the Ask OV podcast which is where Brigham. And I answer listener questions. If you have a question, feel free to write that in, drop it on the YouTube channel. We're happy to answer these questions and today, we've got, we've got some good ones. In fact, we've got a really good one. That's very timely for the seasons, and we may spend a lot of time talking about just how we handle things in, you know, the late third season coming into four season and kind of stretching gear out to make that happen. So Brigham, how you doing today?
[00:00:33] Brigham: Doing pretty well. Spread it kids are on fall break. I'm going camping with my son tomorrow. So
[00:00:39] Tayson: nice.
[00:00:39] Brigham: Should be fun.
[00:00:40] Tayson: Yeah, I'll be exciting. I'm flying to Denver this next week. Got some work stuff going on over there and then we'll do a The last 36 miles of the Colorado trail that goes into Denver, it won't be our last section of the trail, but still 100 miles to the next summer. But Yeah, I'll be getting out of the office for bit. You're going with your boy can.
[00:01:04] Brigham: Yeah.
[00:01:07] Tayson: You know, hiking like 20 miles in there, he's what? I don't know. He's
[00:01:10] Brigham: 6. I I think we're just gonna go maybe just explore probably just truck Camp wherever we? Find that looks cool. He told me. He wants lakes, rivers. Climbing, rocks, and trees. So I'm like, all right,
[00:01:28] Tayson: you can find those things. Does he like fishing or see?
[00:01:31] Brigham: He enjoyed it. Like I think the first time he Maybe two summers ago the summer previous to this last one was first time. He really caught fish and then I took him up the river in the spring and he He enjoys it. Yeah for sure. I I just haven't used a 10 car that's really easy. He catches fish so
[00:01:53] Tayson: that's awesome. Um, Off Script question here. Are you a? Like truck. Let's see how to say this.
[00:02:03] Tayson: The pop-up tent camper things on trucks, what he called those things, why I'm totally blinking, a rooftop tent roof, top 10. Are you a rooftop tent guy?
[00:02:11] Brigham: And I'm not, I am I can. Spend the money for that kind of stuff and several other places. That would make more sense to me.
[00:02:22] Tayson: Even if you have someone gifted one to you, would you even want it?
[00:02:26] Brigham: thought I would not, I don't want to put that much weight on the top of my vehicle and I I just prefer sleeping on the ground.
[00:02:36] Tayson: Yeah.
[00:02:37] Brigham: So yeah, they don't they don't appeal to me.
[00:02:40] Tayson: Oh, I asked that because I'm I'm in the same boat like, they got so popular. Now the last five years and you still see him around a lot, but I have never had an appeal to him. And my reasoning for. I mean, similarly, I don't want on top of my vehicle, its weight. It's a lot of drag for just gas mileage tires. But, um, If you've ever like, can I to me? Sleeping that high up on a vehicle. On a windy night. Would it be worse than sleeping? And I would be like sleeping in a hammock I guess. On a Wendy's to me rocking and rolling. The Tamiya feels like, you know,
[00:03:19] Brigham: if I would expect it to feel like what it has felt like the times that I've slept on a boat,
[00:03:24] Tayson: like, a boat, like a Lake Powell.
[00:03:26] Brigham: You know, where I slip on a boat? Yeah, I don't know. Like when we this is a bit of a detour, but Like, we went to Moab last year. For spring break. And I would say that was would have been like the very classic, what everybody would go and make this elaborate YouTube video about overlanding, right? Well, I mean I've been camping. My entire life and that includes truck camping and backpacking. But so it's like nothing is new to me about that except for the rooftop tent thing and the elaborate cooking setups that people take but essentially I took my family of there's five of us in in my truck which is like a mid-sized offer road truck and I have a tonneau cover and my goal was to have everything in the bed of the truck under the tonneau cover. So it just looked like how it looks like when I drive to work and it was so slick and so easy, totally manageable. Everything was in totes or coolers. and like, And I have a family of five. Okay, so three kids and we have this giant six-person tent that we can all stand up in have like a dirty clothes pile.
[00:04:43] Brigham: And yeah, it was so manageable and it was,
[00:04:47] Tayson: yeah,
[00:04:48] Brigham: yeah, so yeah. No. Rooftop tent for me.
[00:04:51] Tayson: Yeah. I'm I'm the same. I just, I don't have a massive appeal to it. Like even the fact like you'd still try to have to level your vehicle, which I guess you could bring blocks but there's just more stuff to bring right? Versus like just finding a flat spot on the ground to sleep. And I don't, yeah, I think that there's a. I Here's my thought. I think the people that are really drawn to it, like the idea of sleeping there, because There is, there's a biological safety aspect to sleeping. Hi to being high and being up and away from any pools that are distance.
[00:05:30] Brigham: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Tayson: You see an animals. They want to be up high with good visibility. You see it with yeah, even whatever you bump the black bear. What do they run up a treat? You know, it's safety. Its Or a cat or a, you know. And so I think there's like a little bit of this like unconscious appeal to it. That comes in and then the idea that like, maybe you've got a thicker pad in there or some other things,
[Editor’s note: The elevated-sleeping explanation is personal speculation, not evidence that a rooftop tent provides wildlife protection. The phrase “any pools that are distance” is unclear.]
[00:05:53] Tayson: but as far as truck camping, too, I think, I mean that's impressive. You got it all over the tunnel cover. Like, I'm, I'm pretty impressed with that. One of my bigger things that I have enjoyed the last few years. it's always the easiest to manage, but a lot of vehicles now have Like whatever wall plugs an hour. 20. And so I got an electric cooler. And it was like 300 bucks, something like that. So not not outrageous compared to cooler prices these days. Yeah, I've loved that thing because I don't have to deal with wet ice getting everything in my cooler wet. And then obviously adding like a power bank, you know, can can extend that now, that is two more things to manage and sometimes I gets a little bit annoying, but electric cooler has been an awesome thing and then I have some fold up solar panels and stuff. So, I did, I did six days a Lake Powell with solar panels, battery bank, and a cooler camping on the beach. And that was, that was a great time with family, but electric cooler. I was done my money on that way before. Look at.
[00:06:54] Tayson: Yeah, he said there's like the last thing on the list
[00:06:58] Tayson: but Okay, we've got a really good question today. They want to kick this off with from Mike Dixon and just to go back. Really quick Ask OV the episode's a little bit more shorter, try to keep them to the point and answer questions. This one's a really good topic though. So when they Riff on it a little bit because both of us have some upcoming trips, this is very applicable to. So Mike asked Um,
[00:07:19] Tayson: we're going into winter season using three season Gear. With some add-ons, this question is, is it better to use a sleeping bag with a quilt around the outside or a quilt within the sleeping bag or like a quilt within a quilt? So, you know, when we're layering bags, which we don't necessarily this, that's a rare case for us. Like the only time I've ever seen either of us do that is when it's getting into the negative like, well, below zero situations but for layering a bag. I've done it both ways. What's your preference?
[00:07:52] Brigham: I mean, I was just gonna say I've done all those things. And and some of it like goes back in history a bit. But, you know, It honestly. It's pretty, pretty impressive. When you just start compounding. Down or insulation. How warm it actually is like it's you're almost like indestructible so it's almost like you can't really go wrong. The only the things that I would be paying attention to is I would just put whatever is smaller inside, whatever's bigger, right? So yeah, whatever. Who cares? If that's the quilt that's bigger or the sleeping bag that's bigger, just put the bigger one on the outside. And I've done this with. I've done it with just like flat. Quilts that I've sewn myself that have no closure. It's just a big long or big rectangle, you know. I just stuffing that inside a sleeping bag and or another top quilt and and that works great too.
[00:08:50] Brigham: So it's it's pretty hard to go wrong when you're when you're doing that but I think for like the optimal situation and just being as much as efficient as possible and comfortable because comfort you know, comes into play and that's why I say, just make sure you put the I would prefer to put the smaller or more narrow. Piece of gear inside, whatever's bigger, especially in the foot box. That's where I think it's the most, the most noticeable.
[Editor’s note: Layering insulation is not indestructible protection against cold. Fit and retained loft matter; this is not a temperature rating or assurance of safety.]
[00:09:17] Tayson: Yeah. I think that is definitely the number one thing, you know, like our new Expanse sleeping bag coming out, like definitely put a quilt inside of that one. But if it was in other situations, I've done at the other way, I will say this, When you put stuff inside, when I have done it, I have like one of our Summits, one of our mummy bags, Summits that, you know, it's more narrow taper mummy bag. And then I put a quilt inside of it. Once I was extremely warm in that, but the thing to note is like that quilts down filled every nook and cranny around my body. And so, if like, you cannot stand in that tight and constricted It's not, that would be kind of what you're in for, in this scenario. It was the time when we went into like, it was about -15 when we were up on on Beaver mountain and Yeah, I was toasty warm and I was fine with it. Being that type of man, it is an interesting experience to feel that just like just fills every nook and cranny around your body.
[Editor’s note: The reported minus-15 experience is personal, not a safe temperature extension for another sleep system. Do not compress insulation or rely on this anecdote to exceed the protection your conditions require.]
[00:10:20] Tayson: What about this? So some people Some trains of thought out there are two,
[00:10:25] Tayson: add a sleeping bag liner. Like, that's gonna add warmth to the bag. In fact, years ago, like, a decade ago, we had a sleeping bag liner that we produced and, you know, maybe we said it out of the little bit of warmth five degrees, maybe something. But but the most part, like, the idea of I am sleeping bag. Liner, top point for us was, keep your bag clean and your bag stays more lofted and you don't have to wash it as much and it's kind of down care but we've since stopped producing them, I haven't used the sleeping bag liner for a lot of years. for me, also, with that particular aspect, The reason I guess I'll answer from my perspective, why we don't even make a sleeping bag liner. Now is the weight to Performance ratio on that is just it's really low. So fabric Kind of fabric depending on what you're using. It's just way heavier than adding more down if you're trying to be warm. So sleeping bag liner. Yeah, I can add a little bit more, but not so much.
[00:11:25] Tayson: Even if you went to, I've seen a couple out there, maybe they're from Cottage brands of like the you know, PrimaLoft Evolve, Alpha—Alpha Direct fleece fabric made into sleeping or something like see how those could have maybe a little bit more warmth, but again, One that would be really annoying to sleep in to me like it would stick to everything. You'd have really tough time getting in and out of your bag with those slick. feel like this massive stick Factor, but Even then down is just the most thermally efficient thing out there and the materials that we put down in yells it was really like [exact fabric specification unclear] like just more efficient to use down whenever and however possible and in my opinion. So, Anyway, I don't know. There's anything on there. That's just kind of a.
[Editor’s note: The liner discussion is a personal weight-and-warmth comparison, not a verified five-degree gain. The exact fabric specification remains unclear; do not use this passage to select a particular fabric weight.]
[00:12:14] Brigham: Yeah. I mean there We have we've talked about some other like the supplemental things. You can do that are not specific to this question about, you know, the two different, you know, bagger and quilt. But yeah, I mean, use other things that you're taking in your backpack to supplement, your sleep system
[00:12:37] Tayson: So let's get into that after let's answer the second part and then I just want to ask you like a blanket. You're going into the third season. You're using a lot of third season gear.
[00:12:44] Brigham: Yeah, we do that.
[00:12:45] Tayson: Yeah, so the next question that my guests here or second. Follow on for the third season, specifically is
[00:12:51] Tayson: When adding it a closed cell foam pad, you know. So we've got your pad, maybe it's a three seasons in pad, you want to add more warmth in your pad. One of the best ways to do that is to add, you know, closed cell foam pad to it. He's asking Is it better to have that under your sleeping pad or on top of your sleeping pad? I've tried both but I'll let you answer first.
[00:13:12] Brigham: Yeah, I've tried both to and I haven't found that to really be like a significant difference in having adequate heat retention. I just have preferred putting the closed cell foam as close to the ground as possible. And some of that is just I feel like that interface from the ground to the closed cell foam to the inflated pad. So then me, It just works better comfortable this shifts around less things. Stay put better. And it just feels more comfortable to me. So that is how I prefer to do it. I used to do this a lot so I had like, when the The original NeoAir Therm-a-Rest came out like idea had won the year, it came out. So I used that thing for years. And that was the only inflatable pad I had. And I would always just when it came to Winter camping. Or cold weather camping. I always just brought a foldable like the foldable closed cell foam pad. And that was, that's what I did for any kind of cold weather trip and it was very effective. And so yeah, through that, experimentation of, you know, having it on top or below, I prefer, you know, below the inflatable pad.
[00:14:39] Tayson: So yeah, for me, it was always below. It's more comfortable. It helps your pad just stick and plays, add protection, lots of, there's lots of Pros to doing it underneath. however, a few years back now, almost two years back,
[00:14:53] Tayson: we went into coyote Gulch and it got way colder than I expected and I was trying out a new pad. That's our value was good in a lab, you know? But in the real world it had it was a bigger thicker pad. And so I had just a lot more area. When it comes to pads. This is just opinion. I have learned in terms of like, like Therm-a-Rest came out the NeoLoft. This big tall almost what four and a half inch pad. Then NEMO came out with the Eclipse. I think there's a this and it's like a four inch PAD as well and both of those have extremely good our values but those are our values coming out of the lab and in my opinion on how they're tested in the lab is they have right. The cold plate like underneath the pad and they've got, you know, the sensors and stuff on top of the pad. But it's we don't know anything about the room that it's in the condition like the other aspects in the lab per se. So my opinion has been is when you take those out of the lab and the real world.
[00:15:58] Tayson: Well, now there's cold air on every nook and cranny of this massive pad. And it doesn't sleep as warm as maybe a smaller pad with the same r value, or maybe a little bit less thick of a pad at the same r value.
[Editor’s note: The lab explanation and thickness comparison are personal hypotheses, not a verified account of standardized R-value testing or proof that thicker pads are colder.]
[00:16:11] Tayson: And so I took a NeoLoft into this situation, it got into the single digits and with a lot of like moisture in the air too and I was, it was the coldest night I've had in a long, long time. And by the morning I was trying, I was willing to try anything and so I did take my closed-cell foam pattern, put it on top of the NeoAir. And that did actually like I noticed a warmth difference when the pad was like completely maxed out. I mean that pad was maxed out it was way colder than it. Then I should have had that padded and I did notice a difference. So my my answer to that would be the same as I put it on her almost every single time. If you are freezing, try to put it on top and you may get a little bit of a lift with having that just right next to your skin. So, great question though.
[Editor’s note: The speaker names both NeoLoft and NeoAir in this anecdote; the exact pad used is not established. The reported warmth improvement is personal experience; moving foam is not a reliable rescue plan for inadequate insulation.]
[00:16:56] Tayson: And so to riff off of that,
[00:16:58] Tayson: both me and Brigham have upcoming weeklong trips. Planned to go into the Colorado, Backcountry in November and these trips should be, you know, second 30 week of November. We've already been getting snow in the mountains out here. So I anticipate that these trips for both of us are going to be really cold conditions and so How do you plan to go into that? Are you making alterations the third season stuff? Are there? Other considerations? Do you go full Four Season? You know. So maybe walk us through your gear system and how you would approach that
[00:17:38] Brigham: Yeah, so starting from the bottom. It'll be, you know, I'm gonna, I'll just take and a newer XTherm pad. It's just a, it's just a one-and-done problem solved for any temperature range, really reasonable within the lower 48. So that's that's what I'll be sleeping on top of and I, also, I'm I am.
[00:18:05] Brigham: I'm gonna be watching the weather forecast, very attentively because that will determine whether I take a 30 degree Expanse or a 15 degree Expanse.
[Editor’s note: The “any temperature range” claim is not a universal winter safety guarantee. Select the complete sleep system for the forecast, ground conditions and individual cold sensitivity, with a margin.]
[00:18:15] Tayson: Hmm,
[00:18:17] Brigham: I've just used. The 30 degree Expanse. you know, well into the teens, you know, with a lot of comfort because of what I'll explain is, this is, I think. He'll post daylight savings or I mean the days are. The days are short, right? It's dark like 5306. I'm not asleep when it's dark there. I still have at least a couple hours. of being awake, you know, whether that's just Making dinner, treating water, you know, whatever it is, I'm up. You know what I mean? And so I I'm taking puffy layers like I'll be taking a resolve to just solve the upper body, you know, he problem and then you know, puffy pants prototypes. and, So when I am just sitting up around wherever Camp, is that night. I'm alright, so since I'm already planning on taking those items. Depending on the weather forecast, I could absolutely get away with the 30 degree Expanse because once you put on the puffy layers in that thing, it's it's really solid. You know, down down into the teams.
[00:19:31] Brigham: but if it's going to be, you know, significantly colder than that, I'll just change that up to the 15 degree Expanse and, you know, I will probably all sleep in layers if I need to but it's really nice to have that adaptability the flexibility.
[Editor’s note: Using a 30-degree bag into the teens is an individual experience, not a new rating. Clothing does not establish a predictable temperature extension. Model and prototype references describe recording-time plans, not current availability.]
[00:19:50] Brigham: And then one thing I do and it's almost
[00:19:55] Brigham: it's just water management because it's just I like to just be prepared for the next day, right? So another thing I'm doing is heating up water and and filling up. I think it's a three or four liter bladder that all take and I'll just heat up water into that and put that in the foot box. So it doesn't freeze it at night. And then, you know, I'm kind of set for the next day and so that right there again keeps the the foot box really warm And so, but you have between all those things. That's, that's the Sleep System between the pad and the puffy layers you mentioned sleeping bag.
[Editor’s note: The bladder’s model and hot-water rating are not identified. Do not put hot water into an unrated container; follow its temperature limits and closure instructions, and account for burns and leaks. Keeping water liquid does not establish that a filter is safe after freezing: follow the filter manufacturer’s freeze-damage guidance. No thaw-and-reuse protocol is supplied here.]
[00:20:37] Tayson: You mentioned I can't remember in a conversation. We have recently too about just taking Pretty much any other clothing items throwing them in there to take up space or like, you talked about throwing a puffy down by your legs?
[00:20:50] Brigham: Yeah, Point.
[00:20:51] Tayson: Yeah, so it's, it's like use everything that you've got. I think is the takeaway with that. And you know, sometimes I use a lot of my extra clothing even rain jacket or shells or things like that. I'll use those a lot of times to level my pad. Which can also potentially add a little bit of our value or things, but, you know, any of your insulative layers, even, you know, if it's a fleece or other things like, you can still throw those down inside the bag, and those can add a little bit more too. So, how I Brigham saying taking down layers, wearing them to bed if needed on the same. As you, I probably will end up in a 15 degree Expanse for this one. I've seen temperatures during this time in Colorado, hit You know in a single digits and depending on the whether we get over the next while, it could be one of those situations I've all been out there where yeah, you're hitting 20 degrees most the time and and you could probably stretch a 30 degree bag just fine with layers. But yeah, it's it's easy, it's not easy.
[00:21:58] Tayson: But you can you can stretch bags a lot if you just think about. Well, I could just wear the stuff that I have to bring for wearing in the daytime at night time.
[Editor’s note: The below-rating bag and spare-clothing claims are personal experiences, not a measured temperature extension or R-value gain.]
[00:22:09] Tayson: I probably will bring down down, booties down socks. You know, because one thing for me at least is He I don't have great circulation in my feet and so if I am going to be wearing like down pants or down jacket to bed, I personally will probably notice my feet getting colder than the rest of my body. And so in those situations that usually is you know usually throwing down socks. I think those are like 2.9 Oz or something like that to add and can definitely help you stretch the limits of some of the third season gear.
[Editor’s note: These are personal bag, clothing and cold-feet experiences, not guaranteed added warmth or protection from cold injury. “2.9 Oz” is an approximate spoken weight, not a verified product specification.]
[00:22:47] Tayson: Yeah, in the same XTherm is a tried and true pad for me and really cool conditions. Have a lot of faith in that piece. And then I'll say, two, one thing that I've just noticed over and over again with, with pads, as if you have an, I want to say an overly warm Pad, but like a really warm pad, it really helps your sleeping bag and your whole Sleep System like reach its full potential would be the best way to say that. And so yeah, having the XTherm is like Foundation piece. And then, yeah, I'll probably be in. 15 or 30 degree bag and plot. I'm wearing layers to bed and just using everything in my pack, to Just nothing. Nothing really goes unused. I guess you can say one going to bed, whether that's putting underneath the pad, putting things in the footbox like putting below my feet, putting inside the bag or wearing it and wearing it to bed. So you can get a lot of stretch out of things going under those conditions.
[Editor’s note: Spare clothing does not establish a measured R-value increase or make an insufficient winter kit safe.]
[00:23:48] Tayson: Now Maybe let's, let's touch on.
[00:23:55] Tayson: How you plan to layer in those conditions. So you mentioned the resolve bringing up our big puffy anorak Are you still wearing, like? Just regular pants or you getting different, you know. Like maybe walk us through real quick. How you layer in those those conditions?
[00:24:14] Brigham: Yeah. If I would say, if the temperature range is where I would expect it to be which is oldest. Just say generally cold, but I kind of just hope the highs aren't above 40 degrees, you know, I mean, okay, so let's say a high of 40 degrees and overnight low of 15 Like, that's a good range. um, it, you know, again depending on wind how my house Sunny it is or not Sunny, it is I'll either be, you know, hiking in, on my upper layers sometimes potentially just the base layer hoodie, you know, if it's sunny and 40 degrees, I might not even need anything, but if it's colder than that and or windy, I'll probably be, you know, doing something like a base layer combined, with like a Pursuit Hybrid fleece layer, as my just go to wearing all day long. And I will. probably be taking a windbreaker, so that if there is if it's just high winds, you know, then I can Use that one breaker where I need to and then the Resolve anorak on top. I plan to take a rain, a rain jacket. Hope to not have to use it. For the bottom half.
[00:25:48] Brigham: You know, I'll just be taking Altura pants. Will bring. A legging. but I'm only going to wear it if it's really cold like during the day like during the day,
[00:26:05] Tayson: your legs strategies just So aggressive compared to what I what I do is I guess sweaty legs like you if it's
[00:26:12] Brigham: if it's 20 degrees out and I'm wearing a pack and walking I cannot do it with with base layer bottoms on so. Hmm it's got to be pretty cold but to me it's worth it's worth taking to have that adaptability again because I know all so what my sleep system planned is so, Worst comes to worst. I'm already packing the the leggings, you know? And I mean I might just will use them to supplement the Sleep System. So that's yeah, that's pretty much it.
[Editor’s note: These clothing choices reflect individual exertion and conditions, not universal thresholds for wearing base layers.]
[00:26:48] Tayson: Damn. Yeah, this year, I've always worn a base layer like a full-on hoodie, whether that's an Altitude or like our Tern hoodie. This year, I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna wear a Tern tee. And then I'm going to wear a Pursuit on top of that. And I'm pretty much my Pursuit is Is like my base layer, I guess the combination basically a mid layer. I highly doubt. I will ever take those two pieces off, if that makes sense. But if I'm wearing the Tern or excuse me, the pursuit pretty much the whole time. Then I don't really, there's not as much of a need to have a full-on hoodie base layer underneath that such as, you know, hoodie, hoodie, Tern or hoodie Altitude. So I'm gonna try that short sleeve, Tern Pursuit on top Similar to you, I'll take a resolve and a rain jacket. And that will probably be my entire layer strategy for upper body on the legs. Though, I do tend to get colder legs.
[00:27:46] Tayson: Now, when I'm hiking, probably somewhat similar to Brigham, but the one thing I add in salt, I'll take, like, our, like, our Highline thermals but what, I'll probably add in is I've been wearing a Nets on my legs for a long time. So it's it's a different thing. But essentially think of just like a fishnet, legging, they look really weird. they're they're really efficient in terms of the best. The best way to say it is, if you've got a net as a base layer against your leg and then your pant on top of that, when I'm hiking, I'm getting some air flow underneath the pant, you know, just movement and so They vent really well. And then when I stop, you're not really moving a pant and so the pant just rest directly on that netting and it just traps Traps warm air, it allows some more air, so all bring netting and then The Highline thermals, and then an Altura pant. And then, you know, like I said, a lot of down puffy pants prototype down, puffy pants and then because of snow conditions, I will use or bring Gators. So waterproof gaiters.
[Editor’s note: The mesh-layer explanation is a personal field observation, not a measured insulation specification.]
[00:28:59] Tayson: And then boot wise, I also changed to an actual insulated boot, finding an insulated boot that is still decent to hike in, let's not crazy, heavy can be challenged, but yeah, some some kind of an insulated boot. The I've been out there on on a November week-long, backpacking trip and that was kind of like the second time I really froze, my my feet up just day after day getting boots wet. It wasn't really because it was So called the boot wouldn't work but day after day it didn't work anymore and then had issues with my feet and so I do have an insulated boot that I will take on that as well. it's okay, I like it, but It's good enough that I'm not shopping for a new boot but that's something I wouldn't mind doing a little more digging on is finding a little bit of a lighter weight and more technical boot per se because what tends to happen is you get into these insulated boots and the toes are getting more round and the whole boot starts getting a little fatter and a little bigger.
[00:30:10] Tayson: And it does make hiking and Technical terrain, a little bit more challenging, a little more slippery at times but all so, you know, you're adding weight to the right. And so, yeah, I mean, I may have to do some research. Maybe I'll find something a little bit different, but I've got a boot that's fairly light fare. It works fairly well and is quite insulated. And so, yeah, I do end up all. I will end up taking that so Yeah, that's kind of old strategy.
[Editor’s note: Repeated wet, cold feet and foot problems are warnings, not a condition to push through. An insulated boot alone does not establish protection from cold injury; fit, moisture and conditions still matter. The account does not identify a specific boot or treatment protocol.]
[00:30:35] Tayson: I do bring a balaclava to sleep in at night personally and then I do bring a like our Merino wool gaiter to just cover the face when it when it's windy out. I really like covering like my cheeks and nose and face at times because it can it can be miserable for the face if it's windy in those conditions too. So Too small, a few small tweaks but overall like if you've got a great summer kit or fall kit you know adding just a couple little pieces to that makes a difference. This is the first year I would say the first year because we had prototypes last year but this guy our first time taking the resolve anorak into those conditions which is That's a big up level but in the past we've just used, you know, other puppies. Whether it's the The Vantage jacket multiple layers of these and then maybe underneath the Vantage jacket I would add a Vario or a Ventus as needed. So yeah, just You can use so much of your gear and just layer. That's why we always talk about just layering strategies and, and that being You know, really a really important thing.
[Editor’s note: The layer examples describe personal and prototype use, not a complete winter equipment or hazard-management checklist or a current availability announcement.]
[00:31:42] Tayson: And so, so, We do have another question specifically to layering, maybe I'll jump to that and this will be the last question on today's episode. So this is a question looks like from from YouTube from Paisley. The question is I have a Vario jacket in the perfect pairing for wet and windy conditions. Well, the Vario turn this rain jacket into a sauna for December weather in the far north. So basically asking
[00:32:13] Tayson: what can you put underneath the rain jacket that Would work, you know, in these cold windy conditions.
[Editor’s note: The question concerns Vario insulation beneath a rain jacket in wet, windy, cold conditions, as the preceding spoken summary explains. The connecting words in the quoted question are not fully recovered.]
[00:32:21] Brigham: yeah, and yeah, like I have more It creates a couple of questions in my mind. Like will this turn the rain jacket into a sign in December in the far north? the far north like, you know, Northern Minnesota or is that like Up into Northern Canada and and and Alaska. Because that Seems pretty pretty cool to me. And so maybe that's the thought process is That they do need like a fairly insulated piece. on top most of the time because down, I'd say an or even December weather in the Rocky Mountains, I'm if I'm moving at all, I'm not wearing an insulated piece under a rain jacket. You know what I mean? Yeah, I would wear a Pursuit under a rain jacket. That's a really good pairing know. so I wonder like, Maybe make some assumptions that this guy is talking about Montana area. Under the rain jacket, in very cold weather but he's still intends to be moving. I I think that could be a bit hot. now, if you're in Alaska and it's Zero degrees and really windy. Might be a good choice. Anyway. Yeah, it's just because the Vario or the rain jacket to me.
[00:33:52] Brigham: For me personally that implies, it's raining if it's snowing, I'm not even wearing the Vario I'm just or the the rain jacket, right? If it's snowing and I had a Vario on, I would just let the Vario take the snow. You know what I mean?
[Editor’s note: “Far north” does not specify conditions. Letting the Vario take snow is a personal conditional choice, not advice to omit a weatherproof layer in wet snow, rain or all snowfall. The Vario is not a substitute for a rain shell in wet conditions.]
[00:34:08] Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean truthfully I can't say that I've layered that way and And hiked very many miles or spent that much time in that particular, layering configuration and around, or we live, you know, you talk, all right? Oh, some of those areas. It's that would, that would be a bit overkill for being active. I would say. Now, I have used the pursuit, a lot underneath the Tushar rain jacket and that's that's basically fleece underneath the rain jacket. That's a good combo because fleece does so well with moisture. And, and you also not building as much heat in a full insulated jacket. I've also used the Ventus a little bit, but, you know, when we go cross country, skiing, A lot of times you can just wear a pursuit or a lot of times you can just wear a Ventus or even a Vario if it's really cold, but you're actively moving. You are creating a lot of heat underneath there, and they do such good job of blocking wind and stuff or look, you know, call snowfall depending on how wet the snow is.
[00:35:18] Tayson: You know, if it's, if it's really wet snow Maybe struggle a little bit and keeping the moisture off. You know, Vario or Ventus and it coming in and that's where it's helpful. But yeah, a lot of times you can just you can just use those as a standalone. Outer piece versus needing the rain jacket on top. So yeah, tough to answer. I can't say, we spend a ton of time and those in the in a condition where we want the Vario underneath the rain jacket. But would it work? Yeah, it could work and then again the nice thing is it is a synthetic piece. It'll dry quick. If you were to get a little bit too hot under there. Yeah probably not either of our first choice. At least in the conditions that we spend time in, so yeah. It's a good question. I mean a little bit more context there. We might be able to answer a little bit better but hopefully that gives you an idea that that would be a that would be a hot combo.
[00:36:13] Tayson: If you're being active and really moving might want to go a little bit lighter, underneath the rain jacket to not not build up too much sweat and moisture. So and obviously the night, the thing too, is the lighter the layer, the faster it can dry out. So the thinner and the lighter layer, the faster reel dry it out, if it does get wet. And so, just Comparing. Let's say a Ventus to a Vario, if you were using that under a rain jacket and you were building a lot of heat, you started sweating, the Ventus is going to dry a little bit faster than a Vario and kind of same concept with the pursuit piece. If the Pursuit got moist and damp from sweat underneath the rain jacket. You would like we dry a little bit faster too. So yeah, things to things to consider but a lot of good questions on layering.
[Editor’s note: These are conditional personal layering and drying observations, not guaranteed drying times or waterproofness. Wet snow, rain, wind and exertion can change the appropriate combination; synthetic insulation does not remove the risk of getting cold while wet.]
[00:36:59] Tayson: That that gives you a good idea of just. Again, we're coming into these colder Seasons. We're always hopeful that you guys stay out on trail on. Keep doing things all winter long.
[00:37:09] Tayson: I'm already looking forward to not only this November trip but other trip looking forward to getting some of my cold weather shelters out, you know, and snowshoeing and skiing into some areas and and spend a time out there. It's it's such a what? I think of backpacking in the winter. I just think of like the ultimate Tranquility. This is so quiet.
[00:37:33] Brigham: Yeah,
[00:37:34] Tayson: so peaceful and it's just extremely pretty out there. So, hope you guys take this seriously and just look and see what you what you can do to keep going all year long. So
[00:37:45] Brigham: yeah,
[00:37:46] Tayson: great questions, Mike and Paisley. Thanks for writing those in quest more questions but we will cover them in a future episode. If you've got questions to ask over our YouTube channels and drop questions and comments there, right us and directly from our website open up a chat and just say, you know, I've got an Ask OV question and we'll we'll get those on to a sheet and answer those in future episodes. If you're hiking, buddy isn't about hiking in the winter, maybe send them this episode. Share this episode and start warming up to the idea that we can. You can backpack all winter long. Yeah. Anyways, hope we see out there on the trail because they're subscribed and I'll catch you and if you are so,
[Editor’s note: The closing invitation is not a claim that any three-season kit is safe all winter. This discussion does not supply a complete winter travel, avalanche, emergency or water-treatment plan.]
